This week marks the one year anniversary of The Ouro Bros. and the Neverending Tour, a webcomic created and produced by my friends Jeremy Bentley and Jeff Burkholder. You may also know Jeff as the guy behind our weekly Sunday comic, The Social Life of Frank & Linh. Since all three of us met as the result of our Social Media connections, I thought it would be fun to sit down and chat with the guys (via g-chat), and give them a chance to tell their story. We had a lot of fun, and I’m presenting the interview here mostly unedited. After you read this, please head over and read the latest installment of the Ouro Bros. because rather than just one installment this week, they’ll have FIVE new comics: one each day. Yeah, I’m biased, but I do think they’re doing some pretty special that has the chance of getting big, so check it out!
Me: Hey kids!
Jeff: Howdy, Uncle Ken!
Jeremy: Hey dad!
<I am not related to either of these guys, it’s just wishful thinking on their part>
Me: Alright, I’ll start with Jeremy on this one: briefly tell me a little bit about the genesis of the Ouro Bros., because I know it’s an idea you’ve been kicking around for a long time.
<long pause as g-chat tells us that “Jeremy is typing….” and typing…and typing…>
Jeff: (This is where you talk now, bro…)
Jeremy: uh, typing here…
Jeff: ;)
<As you’ll find out, Jeff likes to use emoticons, though in his defense, when you use them on g-chat, they actually animate and turn right side up to form nice little yellow smiley faces, etc.>
Me: yeah, and of course this is why I used the word “briefly”.
Jeremy: He just asked me a question with a long answer. Briefly. Heh. Yeah, right.
Me: I know who I’m dealing with.
Jeff: Hee.
Jeremy: Answer Part One: Well, a little while after quitting trying to make a living as a musician, and after I started The French Revolution with Daniel French, I had an idea to create a cartoon show about TFR, since we weren’t putting ourselves out into the world. The cartoon characters would be the ones who would tour and go on adventures, since we gave up trying to do that for ourselves.
Part Two: After about a year of trying different ideas and talking with different people about creating that show, I realized it wasn’t feasible.
Part Three: In the meantime, I had started drawing versions of characters on my own. I didn’t plan on being the artist for the show, but I couldn’t find an artist willing to dedicate time to the cartoon show project so I thought I would try to dust off my drawing skills, which had been years out of use.
Me: Keep going. I’ll be over here changing the oil in my car…
Jeremy: I had also started reading a lot of webcomincs. Webcomics. (haha that is totally Popeye. “webcomincs”)
Jeff: (humming while doing a sudoku…)
Jeremy: Hey, it’s not my fault he asked a question that could only lead to a long answer. Part Four:
Jeff: Heh.
Me: Jeff, let me know when he gets to Episode Seven: The Webcomic Strikes Back.
Jeremy: I had also started a Twitter account at the prompting of my wife. I came to learn that the husband of a past church acquaintance was doing a webcomic of his own for several years. I found this info out via Twitter. I had been toying with the idea of changing the cartoon show idea into a sort of prequel to the show, which would be a weekly webcomic about how the band got started.
Me: This is where I jump in with my next question: How did you two meet and how did things progress?
Jeremy: But by that point, I had decided to make it more fictional. Jeff, GO!
Me: Jeff…Jeff….WAKE UP, JEFF!
Jeff: …and the 7 has to go in that row…wait, what? Oh, me already? Well, we largely met thanks to a cupcake. Some might say it was…the BEST cupcake.
Me: Ah, yes, @TheBestCupcake
Jeff: Yep. Jeremy had been posting on Twitpic some doofy Photoshops of a cupcake in various areas, and my wife (who’d known Jeremy years before) brought it to my attention, and I joined in the fun. Tweets followed, and that was kinda how I met your mother. Oh, wait…wrong show…
Me: My mother reads this blog, so I KNOW you can’t be talking about her…
Jeremy: Heh. @thebestcupcake. I almost forgot about that.
Jeff: Hee; anyway, during my downtime between jobs in 2010, Jeremy brought this crazy idea to me about Josie and the Pussycats, and it went uphill from there.
Me: So how was it decided that Jeff would be the “writer” and Jeremy the “artist”?
Jeremy: Well…should i start?
Jeff: Sure.
Me: As long as you stop…
Jeremy: Haha. Well, this ties into what i was saying before…
Me: Oh good, Part Five!
Jeff: Although, short answer: ’cause I can’t draw worth a darn, and he’s too long-winded. :)
Me: Oh man, I didn’t think of that. It would be like trying to fit the text of War and Peace into a single-frame comic like Ziggy!
Jeff: Total truth, man.
Jeremy: From the whole cartoon show experience, I learned that my best abilities in creating an idea like that were of taking the role as a general idea spout, and I found that I wasn’t half-bad at drawing cartoony dudes (rusty, sure). So I needed someone through which to filter my ideas, and I could draw those ideas. I didn’t think I could regularly come up with comedic writing as a routine, so I asked Jeff if he would collaborate with me on refining my overall ideas and do the writing for the strip, but we would both brainstorm to create the more refined overall arc.
Me: Ok, now here we are a full year into the Ouro Bros. Did you have any idea how it would turn out? And now that you look back, how have things changed?
Jeff: Well, we’ve got a massively massive story arc planned out. This was stuff we talked about prior to the very beginning…But we decided we wanted to firmly establish the characters and their motivations first, and take it slow in that.
Jeremy: Yes, our initial brainstorming session covered a huge amount of ground.
Jeff: I don’t know that we had an idea of just how slow that would go, but we’re not at all complaining about it. ;)
Jeremy: And yeah, after a year we are still establishing the characters and their motivations. Yeah, we are both in it for the long haul, so if it takes a while to really invest in our characters, that is fine with us. We want to establish characters that the audience will befriend and really create some kind of loyalty with our readership by giving them well-developed characters.
Jeff: We’ve still got the future storyline waiting in the wings, and we’ve been dropping hints about it, here and there…
Me: How about your expectations for how this would be received versus the reality? Are you surprised at all by how it has been received?
Jeff: Well, the reaction to the Lancaster storyline has been just fantastic…
Jeremy: I am, yeah. I thought the aim would be at a small niche of independent musicians, and people that deal with the kind of lifestyle our characters are living, but as it turns out, we have a wide range of people who are regular readers…so, more people get it than I thought.
Jeff: Given that I don’t have that background, though, it seems retrospectively inevitable that it would break out of that. ;)
Jeremy: Yeah, having Jeff as a collaborator is really helping to bring the comic strip to a wider range of personalities
Me: Jeff, you mentioned the Lancaster storyline. This is your home, and you guys have included Lancaster on the Neverending Tour. How did you decide about which real people and real places you include?
Jeff: Heh. Mostly it’s been a matter of what places do we like to go to… I mean, the Chameleon Club was a no-brainer, as was Square One…And from pre-Day One, both of our wives have been asking to be put in the strip somehow.
me: Well, of course you had to listen to them…or else!
Jeff: And your presence in the “Welcome to Utah” storyline kinda made that an even keener need ;)
Jeremy: Haha no doubt. I wanted to draw Chad Diller and expound on his chin.
Me: Jeremy, any particular challenges in drawing real places and real people as opposed to generic?
Jeremy: Not with people, no. Having a reference for the visual layout of a character is actually very helpful. Given, I am not an amazing artist, so not everyone looks totally like their cartoon version, but being able to draw characters based on real people actually takes some work out of it. Real places? Hahaha that was a huge challenge. I had to go around and take photos of many different angles of places I wanted to use.
Jeff: Although, if you ask me, he’s been kickin’ tuchus at the real places.
Jeremy: I had to learn to draw buildings starting with this comic.
Me: I agree with Jeff. You’ve really nailed the buildings.
Jeremy: But I created a formula as a result of doing that. Well, they are based on exact photo references…so, as long as I can draw those lines the same as what I see in the photo, it certainly helps…but yeah, the first building I tried drawing took so many hours.
Jeff: At the same time, putting the characters into real places ended up changing their dimensions, too, and for the better.
Jeremy: I have sped up that process though, and now know how I would approach future buildings.
Me: Speaking of hours, how much time do you guys put into each week’s installment?
Jeff: Well, I spend a good hour or two writing the script for each one. We then proceed to spend another 3 or 4 hours debating it, tearing it apart, and duct-taping it back together…kidding, kidding.
Jeremy: Haha
Jeff: But yeah, I spend about an hour or two on writing. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on how much storyline is involved.
Jeremy: I don’t even want to say how long it takes me to draw a strip.
Me: Kind of like another full-time job, eh?
Jeremy: Hahaha. right now, I am still trying to get my flow down, and my methods. But I start by sketching the characters for each panel in my sketchbook in pencil, and then I scan those pencil drawings in, and I “ink”, color, and shade in Photoshop using a WACOM tablet (a digital pen, for the uninitiated). It’s mostly digital, but the pencils are done using real pencils and paper. I’d say overall, each strip might take me 6-8 hours.
Jeff: And throughout the process, he’ll occasionally send me snaps of the drawings, and we’ll discuss whether or not the elements work.
Jeremy: Yeah, I do it in many pieces over the course of the week, so it’s hard to calculate time. When I am doing a strip of the characters in the van, those are fast strips and range about 3-5 hours. But since every new strip is usually in a different setting (travelers on a tour, you know), there are no stock images I can keep using.
Me: Any favorite characters in the first year?
Jeff: Elle. Hands down.
Me: No, I’m pretty sure that’s the wrong answer. Shall I ask the question again?
Jeremy: Hahaha
Jeff: chortle, chortle. guffaw.
Me: I mean, do you want this interview to see the light of day?
Jeremy: My favorite character is Elle, because she is pretty much the first female I have ever tried to draw. I taught myself to draw females with her.
Jeff: Okay, yeah, Inky was really fun to write for.
Jeremy: What does it say that all my drawing as a child was cartoon characters or muscled men? No females, but I really really love to draw Balthazar, too. He and Elle are probably tied for me
Me: Haha. Ok, back to Elle. You both chose her. I think from a reader’s standpoint, she’s taken off as a favorite. Are you surprised by this?
Jeff: She’s become much more of a part of the story than we initially envisioned…but we aren’t complaining about that in the slightest.
Jeremy: Yes, as it turns out, she adds dimension to the brothers. we found that with the addition of her, we really learn more about the guys.
Me: She’s got so much…attitude. I don’t see any of that in either of you. Where does it come from?
Jeff: Heh. Our wives.
Jeremy: brb
<Jeremy apparently steps away from the interview, perhaps to distance himself from Jeff’s answer>
Me: Well gee…why am I not surprised by that answer…
Jeff: Ha
Jeremy: Sorry, <This statement redacted to protect Jeremy. Though it had something to do with what was happening at his location> Heh. don’t print that.
Me: Hmmm. Should I edit that out?
Jeremy: Yes!
Me: Hehe.
Jeremy: So let me read here…
Me: Don’t bother reading. Jeff answered, just don’t be surprised if you’re sleeping on the couch tonight.
Jeremy: <Another comment redacted for a variety of reasons, but related to his first redacted statement, not the comment about their wives>
Me: Man I can have fun with this…
Jeff: As an aside, honestly, the point at which I really thought that this strip could be more than it had been was when we did the tribute to the Big Lebowski…It was just so outta left field, but it fit so perfectly with the characters and everything, and I was totally blown away by Jeremy’s drawings of the Cowboy and John Goodman.
Jeremy: Yes, that was by far the most fun I had with a strip up until that point.
Jeff: I think that really marked a turning point for us.
Jeremy: Yeah, it allowed us to realize that we could put in more pop culture references in the comic. to that point, it had been entirely based in this fictional realm. But throwing in the occasional real-world reference creates a touchstone.
Jeff: And Elle became part of that, too. She has more of a real-world feeling than the bros, and we needed that extra experience to put up against their naivete.
Jeremy: Of course that fictional realm was based on real tour situations, or our version of them. Yeah, now that you say that, I think Elle is the connection to the “real” world for the brothers. We are creating the boys to be pretty naive, and out of touch. Kinda “sheltered” if you will – what happens when you take two naive sheltered individuals and have them decide to just up and go on tour for the rest of their lives?
Me: It’s a great concept.
Jeff: We found we really needed Elle as a foil/reality check.
Jeremy: Yes, the Bros need a foil. we can have fun with just the two of them, and we will, as Elle isn’t sticking around forever… is she? Dun dun DUNN!
Jeff: Hey, now, spoilers, man…
Me: Ooooh. Mystery! Intrigue!
Jeff: ;)
Me: So year one is ending, and we’re headed into a special week of comics to celebrate the first anniversary. What’s ahead for year two?
Jeremy: Well, i guess i can say after this storyline, we are going to find out a little more about what Elle is all about…
Jeff: Well, naturally, the Lancaster storyline needs to be wrapped up, and we still have a few surprises in store for that.
Jeremy: But yeah, without giving anything away, we are going to continue to grow these characters, and have new situations for them to get into in new places. That’s pretty general, but we can’t give everything away.
Jeff: Really, Jeremy? “Grow” these characters? I hate that particular use of that word…
Jeremy: Okay, what would you say, Jeff?
Jeff: Have these characters all up-ons? Nah, nevermind. :)
Jeremy: Hoser
Me: Yeesh. Any thoughts on taking this to the next level? T-shirts? Movie deals? “Ouro Bros. – The Musical”?
Jeff: We’ve talked a little bit about merch…Universal hasn’t contacted us yet about the inevitable movie series.
Jeremy: But I think the primary focus now is to just continue to invest in creating a good story with these folks. It would be amazing to start creating merch, but I think we can’t focus on those kind of peripherals until there is a real demand for that kind of thing.
Me: I’ve done a little informal market research, and I have it on good authority that the masses are clamoring for Inky the Mule to get his own spinoff comic. And a bobble head doll.
Jeff: The trick is knitting the tiny lil’ moose-pants for the doll…
Me: Oh, it CAN be done
Jeremy: yeah. i think PETA would have something to say about that.
Me: Hey, I’m handing you the secret to success here. Fame and fortune.
Jeremy: Besides, what would Inky do in his spin-off comic? Find different ways of telling people to respect their customer base?
Me: Works for me!
Jeremy: ;)
Jeff: I’m still waiting on a blog post about how social networking is like a tumbleweed…
Jeremy: Haha, yeah!
Me: Keep waiting, slick…
Jeff: Hee
Jeremy: It’s unfortunate then, that Inky is going to be sacrificed for that storyline when the Bros run out of food and have to resort to hunting human meat…
Jeff: ‘cept Elle. She’s vegetarian.
Me: Watch it, or I’ll get AARP after you! OK, to wrap this up, any words of wisdom you’d like to give to your readers, both new and old?
Jeremy: I have no wisdom to impart. except that it would be wise to get all your friends to read the Ouro Bros!
Jeff: Heh. I’d just ask our readers to enjoy the ride, and pass along the word.
Jeremy: Oh, and be wary of the mainstream music industry in general… you never know who’s running things.
Jeff: Ooh, yeah, good one
<At this point, Jeremy decides to take control and interview Jeff>
Jeremy: Jeff, I would personally like to know how the Ouro Bros has changed your writing style, if it has at all.
Jeff: Good question. I’ve really been forced to try to figure out the “voices” for Bal, Stan, Elle, and the others as we go along, more so than I’ve had to for my other projects. Although, arguably, the greater change has been that I’ve felt compelled to step up my game in art for my first webcomic, Zoidland.
Jeremy: I have noticed you doing more with Zoidland’s art, making it more three-dimensional adding more contrast with blacks and sometimes grey.
Jeff: Heh. I’ve also had to break out of the geek/politics jokes that I’m more familiar with on Zoidland and Frank & Linh.
Jeremy: What have you learned in facing the challenge of figuring out the voices for Bal, Stan and Elle? Were they totally foreign characters for you to have to write?
Jeff: No, not at all foreign. I’ve been largely relying on aspects of my own personality for all three, as I suspect most writers do. Bal’s my easy-going, “It’s all good, all the time” groove. Stan’s a bit more type-A-ish, but at the same time, has a good heart and really cares about his brother. Elle taps into my frustration with things and potentially how I react to disappointments in my life.
Me: Very cool. anything else guys?
Jeff: I think I’m good… Really glad this has happened, and looking forward to it continuing for a good, long time. :)
Jeremy: Ah, well now that you’ve said that, yes, this is probably the most fun experience I have had creatively in a very long time and I really love how when Jeff and I brainstorm, that we really quickly tap into each other and end up on the same page. I didn’t know what to expect when first approaching Jeff, but he has made for a formidable counterpart and co-collaborator. he has taken things in different ways than I would have thought, but I like the direction in which we are heading.
Jeff: Helps we both grew up in the ’80s… :)
Jeremy: Haha yeah
Me: Ah yes…the 80s…
Jeremy: Yes, when you were just approaching your 50th year…ah good times
Me: Alrighty kids, that’s quite enough. Thank you!
Jeremy: Thanks, Ken! this was fun and don’t write anything about <content redacted to once again protect Jeremy>
Me: It was. and I’m gonna try to edit it as little as possible!
So there you have it! Now it’s time for you to head over and check out The Ouro Bros. and the Neverending Tour for yourselves. If you’re new to the comic, I suggest you head back to the very first installment and read all the way through. It won’t take you long, and it will provide some context for you, and you’ll see the characters as they grow…er…come all up-ons…or something!
And I’d like to offer my congrats to Jeremy and Jeff on the one year anniversary of the comic. I’ve enjoyed it greatly, as well as their friendship!
[...] Also, if you’ve ever been curious about the brains behind the funny, hop on over to Ken Mueller’s blog. Jeremy and I had a chat with Ken the other day where we talked about where the strip has been, [...]
[...] see what’s cracking! And if you’re curious about the process behind it, head on over to Ken Mueller’s blog and hear all about the behind-the-scenes stuff on The Ouro [...]
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